Guillermo del Toro’s Pinocchio is one of the most anticipated animated movies of the rest of 2022. The Academy Award-winning director of The Shape of Water presents a new stop-motion feature film version of the classic story with an all-star voice cast and breathtaking visuals. It opens in select theaters this November and debuts on Netflix December 9th. I recently spoke with Georgina Hayns, Director of Character Fabrication, on bringing the puppets to life, working with del Toro, and some of her other stop-motion career highlights. (This Animation Scoop Q&A was edited for length and clarity.)

Jackson Murphy: When did you first learn of the Pinocchio story?

Georgina Hayns: I’ve known about Pinocchio as long as I can remember. I think I saw the Disney animated version when I was about three years old. And growing up in Europe, because Pinocchio is such a known image in Italy, you get a lot of wooden carved dolls of Pinocchio. There’s even Christmas decorations that are inspired by Pinocchio. Pinocchio’s always been around me, but it’s funny because… I still didn’t really know the story until I started working on this Pinocchio.

JM: Interesting. So in that case, in working with Guillermo on this, it kind of opened up your eyes to the possibilities of what Pinocchio could really be.

GH: Absolutely. And to work with such a master director / filmmaker as Guillermo… he’s a storyteller. Of course Guillermo’s gonna bring his own take to the story, which gives it so much more depth and heart. The original story has heart, but there’s something very, very special about this version.

JM: He already transformed my favorite movie of all-time, which is the Disney animated version of Beauty and the Beast. He did that through The Shape of Water so well.

GH: Yes! (laughs) A masterpiece!

JM: And now we have this! You mentioned [in the day’s earlier presentation] the inspiration of Norman Rockwell when it came to the painting of the characters. I’m about an hour away from the Norman Rockwell Museum.

GH: Oh, really?

JM: Yeah. I’m near Albany, NY. The museum’s in Stockbridge, MA. And my grandfather loved Norman Rockwell. Why were you inspired by his work for this?

GH: It’s about the way that he paints people… or really anything. You get close to his canvases, and it’s like an abstract collection of lines and textures. But you step away and it looks like a photograph of either a house or a human. We wanted this abstract realism. All of the character designs have a realism, but then they also have a whimsy and a designed realism. You want everything on the surface of those characters to enhance those characters. It was Rockwell and also Andrew Wyeth. He was another huge influence — the way he used paintbrush lines and stippling to create a field with grasses. You look at it when you stand in front of a canvas and you’re like, “What am I looking at?” And you step back and it’s like, “Oh my God! It’s a marshland on the east coast of America!” (laughs) It’s like a surrealist photograph. Guillermo had certain puppet artists he brought in. He liked the way they painted these puppets, and there was realism to them. But we wanted to find something in history and historical artworks.

JM: And you made these puppets in three different parts of the world. It has to feel nerve wracking in more than one way: not just to pull off making these characters but to get them to the specific locations that they needed to be, logistically.

GH: In a pandemic! (laughs) Yeah. We were very nervous about the logistics of sending puppets. Mackinnon & Saunders made all of our hero characters. The main shoot is happening in Portland (ME), so they had to ship the characters. And of course, we had some teething issues. And this one central customs depot that everything comes through… after about four puppets, they were like, “Oh it’s you again! Which character is it today?!” It’s funny that you get a relationship with these bureaucrats. Usually they’re having to stamp metal pots for airplanes. “Oh wow! What’s this for?” And you start a conversation with them.

We were all like, “How’s this gonna work?” But with digital meeting places. We did all of the puppet launches in person in Portland, and then we just hopped on Google Hangout to do all of them in [Manchester] England and Guadalajara [Mexico]. It was seamless.

I was trained by Mackinnon & Saunders, and we have never lost touch with each other. I worked with them for about 15 years up until Corpse Bride. Then I got the opportunity to come to America and head the puppet department for Laika. While I was at Laika, we often got to a place where we couldn’t make all of the puppets in time, so we would call up my friends M&S. They worked on several of the movies. And they called me about a year after I left Laika and said, “Hey, you know that we’ve been talking to Guillermo about Pinocchio? Well, it’s happening. But it’s gonna be shot in Portland, and we’re wondering if you want to head-up the department in Portland. We need somebody we know and can trust.” They had taught me that information is the most important thing to share. The only way you’re gonna get these films made, and to further the art form of stop-motion puppet making, is if you share what you’ve learned.

I’ve always been of that philosophy. Working back with them again was easy. We just told each other everything we knew about puppet making up until that point. It was a symbiotic relationship. And the same with Guadalajara. You think they’re gonna be the ones that are learning from us, but we were learning from them. They’re amazing craftspeople. Because of their situation and maybe sometimes they can’t get the resources we do, they’re more inventive. They can bring some of their ideas to the table that we’ve never thought of.

JM: Communication is key. You’ve worked on a lot of Laika movies with original characters. But I have to imagine that making a Pinocchio and a Geppetto has to feel a little different to bring these iconic characters to life — in actually making the puppets.

GH: Absolutely. And I do think that’s where Guillermo and his vision come in. He has such a passionate, strong vision of what he wants. And he communicates it so well. We’re just there. We’re just making his characters. He’s a brilliant director to work with. [But] it’s funny: I was never intimidated with the idea of recreating, in puppet form, the Pinocchio characters. And it was really down to the people around me (I trusted and respected them) and we’ve got Guillermo and his vision.

JM: What a 1-2 punch for Netflix with stop-motion animation this year. I recently spoke with Henry Selick for Wendell & Wild. It’s great that Netflix is supporting stop-motion and the bold ways we can go with it.

GH: Absolutely. Netflix has been an amazing supporter of our art form — and through the pandemic as well (the craziest times of our lives). They stood by us and we’ve got these two beautiful movies made and about to be released!

JM: You’ve worked on a number of great projects in your career… including Bob the Builder.

GH: Yes I did! (laughs)

JM: I grew-up with Bob the Builder! I loved that show. How was that experience?

GH: It’s hilarious. That TV show [happened] directly after Mars Attacks! had gone to computer animation. We’ve all been on this fast-moving feature film that suddenly just disappeared. And then this TV show came about. It was a Pilot. We weren’t that interested. It was a bobblehead on a bobble body. It was such an extreme opposite of Hollywood Mars Attacks! So we made it and then they came back and said, “Oh, it did quite well. We’re gonna go for a series.” So we made a whole load of puppets for the first [season]. And then they came back and went, “That was really, really successful. We’re gonna go for a second [season].” And then on Season 6 or 7, we were all like, “Oh my God. We never thought this was going to be… the magnitude that it has become.”

At one point we had to line all the Bob puppets up and do maintenance on them all for another season. And not one of them had the same neck length. We just piecemealed them from one season to another. (laughs) And when I first got my job in America and I was coming to and through customs and immigration, I was on an 01. The description is “an alien of extraordinary ability”. So every time they were like, “Well, what are you extraordinary at?” And on one of the first occasions I said, “I’m involved in animation feature films.” “What do you work on?” And I named all of the feature films and the guy was really not impressed. Nothing cracked. And then I went, “Oh and I’ve also worked on Bob the Builder.” “BOB THE BUILDER?!” And he shouted down the line, “SHE WORKED ON BOB THE BUILDER!” (laughs)

JM: I love that! Georgina, are you going to Italy for your VIEW Conference presentation?

GH: I am. And I’ll be taking [some of] the puppets with me as well.

JM: Wonderful! Have a great time.

GH: Thank you!