April 13th, 2020 
Jackson Murphy 
Duncan Trussell, the host of the long-running Duncan Trussell Family Podcast, is also the co-creator and main voice actor of the new adult Netflix animated series The Midnight Gospel (premiering Monday April 20th). It’s about a space podcaster named Clancy who travels to different worlds interviewing all kinds of people and creatures. The show is an instant one-of-a-kind force in animation.
Jackson Murphy: You created this show with Pendleton Ward, the creator of Adventure Time – such a huge hit for Cartoon Network. How did you two come-up with this very unique concept for Midnight Gospel?
Duncan Trussell: The beginning idea was just the question, “Is there a way to make podcasts and animation go together in a unique way – that hasn’t already been done?” There’s plenty of podcasts where they animate people talking like they’re on a podcast, which seems like a lot of work when you can just film people talking. And then there’s… the animation of podcasts where it’s sort of an illustration of the story they’re telling. And we didn’t want to do that. The idea we started working with was: at the end of the world people are probably still gonna be having conversations that aren’t necessarily about the end of the world. I think we’re kind of experiencing that right now, though I wouldn’t call it the end of the world, but certainly an apocalyptic moment for history.
We realized that if you put podcast conversations to action and drama, it creates this innately hilarious comedic effect… and sometimes a really poignant effect as well. That was the origination of it, and then from there we learned how to tie podcast dialogue to animation. If you don’t figure out a way to make the podcast or the conversation merge with the world that it’s happening in, then the podcast kind of becomes background music with the lip-sync. That was one of the challenges of the show. How do you make it so that these two things merge perfectly together?
Otherwise, in the beginning phases of it, it kind of made you feel like your brain was ripping apart. You’d have this podcast conversation that you’d want to listen to, and then you got this action – incredible animation that was happening. And if there was any unlinking of the two, then it created this strange dissonance. We had to learn how to tie them together. And I’m happy to say, some people who’ve watched it are surprised when they hear that it wasn’t scripted.
JM: It is unlike anything I have seen in animation, honestly. I watched the first couple episodes a couple weeks ago. And what really impressed me… is how well it flows. That flow feels so natural. You’ve got the comedy, you’ve got the poignant moments, you’ve got the conversations. And you blend them all together. So getting that blend right seemed to be one of the big challenges for you guys?
DT: Yes. For me it was a double challenge. The only comparison I have for this is the world of comedy. It’s kind of an inside world. Once you’re in it, you’re in it. But before you’re in it… you have to earn your stripes. And I realized the world of animation is identical. It’s just a different art form being perfected. I got lucky because I came in Pendleton, who is deeply respected. It’s a well-earned respect. He’s brilliant. He’s a brilliant animator – and in every level of animation, including allowing everyone to have creative input in the process.
I was dealing with two challenges. One was what you’re talking about. We realized that it was going to be way more difficult than we expected to tie these two things together in a coherent way. We had to make decisions about the way we have a plot. If you have too much of a plot, then people’s minds get pulled out of the conversation into that plot. But if you don’t have enough plot, then the thing gets diffused. And every single episode presented its own unique challenge in how to deal with getting the podcast conversation to merge with the world that it was happening within. That was the challenge.
And then the other challenge I had was being a complete neophyte when it comes to animation. Soon I began to realize the animatics and stuff I’m looking at is similar to looking at an ultrasound of a baby. But I didn’t have, in the early weeks and months of this, I didn’t have the ability to see through the animatics – to see through the rough the sketches – to see through the lack of specific movements and certain parts that would help underline or amplify a joke. I didn’t have the ability to project onto it, because I had never done animation before.
But Pendleton and [director] Mike Mayfield and all the folks at Titmouse were, Thank God, so patient with me… and compassionate. I remember Mayfield at one point said, “Just so you know Duncan, the way you’re reacting right now to it is how everyone reacts the first time they see the beginning phases of animation.” I feel so lucky that I was working with people who had that level of experience, who realistically could help me relax and also show me ways I could look through the precursor phases into what it was going to become so that I could help write the comedy part of it.
JM: And the first episode, “Taste of the King”, features Dr. Drew as the voice of the U.S. President on a version of Earth that’s dealing with a zombie apocalypse. It’s like a re-vamp of three 2013 movies: “Olympus Has Fallen”, “White House Down” and “World War Z”. It’s kind of all of them together with you’re spin on it. Were you really influenced by those movies and other zombie films to make this the first episode plotline?
DT: Yeah – I love zombie movies. I especially love “The Walking Dead” comic books. Pendleton also is a fan of that genre. With that particular episode, we sat down for two weeks with some comedy writers, a witch, a Cultess and various people we thought could have some insight into how the world might end. Including Weird Al Yankovic (laughs). It was one of the most fun writing camps I’ve ever had. Clearly one of the staples of the apocalypse when you’re watching movies is zombies. That’s one of the ways that the world ends: a zombie apocalypse. That was the one, at the time, that we were most familiar with, so that became the first episode.
Watching President Dr. Drew have to take on the burden of the world… shoulder the burden of single-handedly attempting to take these zombies on… creates this really beautiful, poignant commentary on what it’s like to be a leader in that level.
JM: You voice the main character, Clancy. I love his look because between his skin, hair and hat, it’s kind of 3 or 4 shades of purple to pink. How did you ultimately decide on this color combo for him?
DT: After the fact I realized that’s the palette of my podcast. I didn’t pick that. When we went through those beginning phases, we sat and looked at all kinds of possibilities for creating a color for Clancy. Our thinking with it was we don’t want this to be so much chained to the Earth, so to speak. As far as I know there are no human beings with that shade. And if you are that shade, something’s probably happening. That’s a problem! (laughs)
In the beginning we were thinking, “Do we do religious apocalypses? Do we model some of these apocalypses after The Book of Revelations or ideas of how the world might end from Hinduism?” And we realized that if we do that, then we tether this world to our world here. And we found that to be a limiting factor. So I know one of our considerations was: where Clancy lives is a different dimension than ours. Many other aspects of the show might seem similar to stuff here on Planet Earth, but we were always making the decision to make sure that this wasn’t alien, in the sense of being completely unfamiliar, but was more hyperdimensional.
JM: Now with your podcast and working on this animated series, what has your schedule honestly been like over the past year or so?
DT: Thanks for asking… it’s been crazy! To add to that, I was lucky enough to have this beautiful son during this time. He’s now a wonderful 14 month old toddler. But during this show, I was also dealing with being a new parent and trying as much as I can to support my wife AND do a podcast AND do an animated series. It all happened simultaneously. There was no break. There was no resting or anything like that. And it was a delight. I’ve never gotten the chance to work with such brilliant people, and to be at Titmouse surrounded by all these geniuses. I’d never experienced anything like that before. So it was quite joyful but exhausting.
JM: Well it’s gonna be quite a while before your son can watch this show.
DT: YES! (laughs)
JM: But he’ll be really proud of you once he’s able to watch it.
DT: Thank you. He can watch it right now because he’s still a little pre-language, I think. Though they say they understand way more words than they can speak. But I know what you mean. We’re pretty much at the end of him being able to see any scenes from the show.
JM: What are you guys watching now? What are the animated programs you’re watching in this crazy Coronavirus time that we’re living in?
DT: I’m so glad you asked that, man. When I was a kid, there was a movie that came out called “The Last Unicorn”. I sat down with my wife and was like, “Let’s watch this. This meant a lot to me when I was a kid. When I was a kid, it blew my mind. It didn’t age well, man. But still after having done animation and having the experience with it, it’s like, “Oh my God. Look at that. It’s beautiful.” My respect. In the old days, I would watch some animated thing and be so intensely judgmental of it – not understanding the amount of blood, sweat and tears that goes into every frame that any animation of note.
I’ve also been watching “Pinocchio” with my son, which is a mind-melter, having made an animated series and understanding what technology they were using to make that movie – knowing what they must’ve gone through to make that. And looking at the artistry and the beauty behind it, it literally makes me tear-up watching it… also because I’m watching it with my son. Just seeing someone witness “Pinocchio” for the first time is pretty transcendental.
JM: An all-time classic. So Duncan, is there a chance you’re gonna do a sort of spinoff or special series of your podcast devoted to every episode of “The Midnight Gospel”?
DT: What a great idea! Yeah – now that you gave me the best idea ever, sure! I think that’s great to do some supplementary… I would love to do that and let it be out there for a little while and sort of talk about it. That being said, going into the symbolism of it or what it means to me, I feel extremely hesitant to say too much about that because I really do want people to use it as a kind of screen that they can project their own subconscious onto. Many of the people involved in the production were amazing at weaving into the tapestry of the show a lot of deep stuff. Maybe that stuff is just stuff that I’m seeing. I don’t know.
One of the [amazing] ways Pendleton works is that he’s really inclusive when it comes to the creative process. Everyone on the crew, hopefully, felt included in that process. They were included. Anybody who had a great idea or wanted to contribute… we were so blessed in that we were able to make a show that didn’t have to adhere to some of the strict aspects of animation that other shows have to adhere to. Also, all our animators were in-house. The animators realized that they had a lot of scope within which to experiment with the form itself.
As long as there was coherence between the frames and the scenes, we really did encourage them to experiment and come-up with their own ideas and flourishes. And I think a lot of them felt like they really were being allowed to be the artists that they are and not smushed into some rigid form. And that led to a depth… and some of the unique qualities of the show. Some kind of group mind formed, and Pendleton was the sorcerer behind that group mind.
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